Thursday, September 20, 2012

Stirring the BIM tool pot

Archicad vs Revit, more like Archicad vs Logic & Reason!!!

Fluffy Kittens please forgive us. Put on your protective gear now... (Yes images & red text are links!!!) We only use "BIM model" to explain our points...
 Point 1) <played in G minor> 
Archicad kills fluffy kittens wantonly
RFC was sent a link showing how Archicad's own press release states "...BIM Model within Archicad..." Ugh, really, saying 'BIM model' in a release to people who know that term to be used in ignorance??? Is that is supposed to lend an air of professionalism? Because it doesn't.

And RFC knows a thing or two about both being professional, as well as being unprofessional!!! (We have been known to use a lot of swear words ;-)

Is saying 'BIM model' a minor thing? We think not. But hey, we are just sticklers for the truth...and syntax.

Dear Archicad, 
The word Model is part of the fucking acronym BIM.
ATM also has the word machine in it, so keep that in mind as well, so as not to sound (more) like idiots, while you drag your programming knuckles into the present.

-Signed RFC Check :-)

Point 2) <played in F major>
Are BIM authoring tools Multicore & Multithreaded? 
Revit is much more than Archicad!!!

Here's Archicad's idea of multi-threaded support:

1) Self explanatory, since Archicad can't seem to take advantage of multi-cores too well.
2) Wait, doesn't it say multi-processing helps? Why then spin it to say it doesn't...
3) Oh, because marketing can't tell the plain truth: Archicad is too lazy(?) to program for it.

Well after their underwhelming list of only 8 things that AC does utilize multi-threading for let's compare, shall we? We shall!

WOW, AC uses multicores to place a PDF... Big fucking deal.

How many times can they list saving as separate items??? Looks like 3!!!

Managing Autosave? They actually say that "Managing" autosave needs multi-processing??? Yikes.

Now we know Revit doesn't autosave but that is something that we don't want... With worksharing it is much more important to be mindful and intentional about what and when to save, so hold your water ArchiHaters.

OH AND ANOTHER FUN ONE: Graphics Processor Units (GPU) are not the same as Central Processing Units (CPU) so please remove that from the list of multicore processing. Archicad's bullshit marketing spin only obfuscates knowledge & intelligence for people who are really looking the truth.

Here's Autodesk & Revit's idea of multi-threaded support:
Now that list only has one more item (9) BUT the actual items that are listed are much more effective and powerful, when compared to the other BIM Authoring Tools!!!

Not much to say about the Revit list...while it is always getting better, we find Revit Multi-Processes the best.

14 comments:

  1. "Is saying 'BIM model' a minor thing? We think not. But hey, we are just sticklers for the truth...and syntax." - 100% agree.

    In case Ac vs Revit, your logic is a bit out of context. Although I see Revit solid model kernel(and other features) more viable, but it's too hungry for your hardware specs and so optimized for working with large models (I'd say - model exploration etc) as CATIA|Digital Project does.
    Here is interesting research results on BIM tools - http://www.aecbytes.com/report/2010/BIM_Evaluation_Study.html

    Here is the comparison table, p.139(I hope I can provide it) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ig0vtlqgbzmmauq/BIM_Evaluation_comparison-139.JPG
    I found it interesting. Revit persists in its weaknesses too - strongly IMHO

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  2. Eugene (I hope I translated your name correctly),
    We appreciate your interest and while the information you provided seems correct, it is so out of date that it carries no actual weight any longer.

    The enlightenment value is now no impact since the data is from 2010 and as most all Reviteurs know, that was a transitory release; plus being several years old holds renders it only useful only for those running 4 year old software...

    Keep up checking OUR facts, we truly appreciate your passion and input!!!

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  3. Thanks for an answer, J! Actually I'm not a holywar guy;) Just my thoughts and someone research! I totally agree with Revit "power", and I find it very promising. However, I use AC sometimes and it's ok for me too... (excepting GDL hardcoding)

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  4. ROFL at the holywar comment... I am not either but it's fun to get the positional people out there all riled up!!!

    I personally say: Use the best/most appropriate tool(s) for the job.

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  5. Exactly. That's why I've chosen Revit platform as a main BIM package for educational processes. It's easier to teach due to Revit systematic principles.

    Great blog, J ;)!

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  6. Of course you know my thoughts on all this.

    The logic of the multi-core and multi-threading argument seems fairly thin.

    But regarding the other piece and all the lovely BIM Model talk, Graphisoft is far from alone in using that phrase. So don't forget to yell at all these people too and make sure they know that they sound like "idiots, while you drag your programming knuckles into the present."

    http://www.shoegnome.com/2012/09/21/ownership-of-the-bim-model/

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  7. The logic of multi processing being necessary is thin??? That is laughable!!!

    Everyone says BIM model, even us who rail against it... Can't we all just get along? ;-)

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  8. You do realize that the "M" in BIM could just as easily stand for "Modeling" as it does for "Model" in the context you're taking it, right?
    Especially in the context of referring to BIM as a process and a concept, as it so often is referred to, rather than just as a noun referencing just the digital model.
    In which case, referring to the BIM Model as a BIM Model is neither redundant nor syntactically incorrect.
    One would think you would know that especially considering the fact that Autodesk did, after all coin the term, piggy-backing off of an already existing concept and methodology conceived by none other than Graphisoft, the makers of ARCHICAD, back in the 80's when it was known as "Virtual Building".
    But then again, one would also think that choosing to criticize how the syntax and grammar of how GS choose to phrase their terms rather than focusing on the substance of their arguments would be beneath the dignity of a serious article, but one would be wrong.

    Also, I find it laughable that you so quickly dismiss the importance of the Autosave function in ArchiCAD, as not needed in Revit, considering just how crash prone Revit is, with larger models and less than uber-powerful computers.

    Logic and reason is not so strong in whomever wrote this article which is further laughable considering the first line of it.

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  9. "Unknown",
    Like it's said: Stirring the pot. As in to get reactions. And if you think that was intended as a serious article you need some serious psychotherapy!!!

    The BIM Model stuff is a bit of fun but if you want to allow that to cloud the main points then so be it. But Archicad's spin and the fact that AC is not using much multi-processing, while both saying it helps, then saying it isn't important or helpful is a joke!

    Too bad you're scared to back up your points with a real name... At least you know who I am and that I have the outlook that if I am to say something I have the balls to say that under my name!
    -Love, J

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  10. Well, excuuuse me for not putting a "real name" (because, after all, your real name is "J") in a blog and article touted by no less than the author himself as not being intended as serious.
    That's of course leaving aside the fact that your own blog defaults new users to the "Unknown" tag if they're not set-up with one of the pre-defined services (Google, Wordpress, Livejournal, TypePad, AIM, OpenID) or the fact that anyone can make up any name and present it as their own (shocking, you din't know this; oh wait,...no it isn't) and that it's not a name that one deliberately chooses to avoid identifying themselves, or in some exhibition of lack of courage to defend their points .
    But whatever.
    And let's not even get into how one comes to the bizarre conclusion in forming a correlation between one using their "real name" (whatever that means in the context of the internet where one can make up any name they choose) and their courage to defend their argument.

    Continued below...

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  11. Leaving the aside the juvenile inanities for a moment, and getting to your actual "points", if we can call them that, I gotta say, I just love how you start off your argument with "Point 1" being summarized thus:-

    >>>>"Is saying 'BIM model' a minor thing? We think not. But hey, we are just sticklers for the truth...and syntax.Is saying 'BIM model' a minor thing? We think not. But hey, we are just sticklers for the truth...and syntax."

    And then when challenged on the veracity of your stickler-ness of the truth and the validity of your syntactical criticism, your response is to dismiss it as you originally intending it to be just a joke and not taken seriously.

    Remember, this is "Point 1"

    A "joke".
    There's a profile in courage if ever I saw one.

    You see, I too can also be a stickler for truth, if not propriety and proper use of syntax, grammar and all that stuff that people introduce at the beginning of their missives, to 'cloud the main points'…..er, …..I mean, to introduce their primary arguments..

    Continued below...

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  12. Continuing on with the main points;,

    In your attempt to argue that Graphisoft, are either contradicting themselves in touting the importance of Multi-core awareness, and supposedly dismissing it, you (I would argue, deliberately) conflate the fact that they were actually drawing a distinction between the fact that ArchiCAD now uses Multi-core awareness to enhance some, but not all of its functions and that a noticeable improvement in performance is achieved with larger projects, - with the fact that in their opinion FULL Multi-core awareness and capability is not holistically important or significant.
    Which is true.
    There are few applications in that are FULLY Multi-core aware ALL the time, using ALL available cores for ALL tasks, and to make your application thus would be largely a wasted effort due to the fact that most tasks the program does do not require this much horsepower.

    I don't see how anyone can confuse those 2 to be a contradiction in points.

    Well, almost anyone.

    Continued below...

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  13. As for your other points.

    The use of Multi-core capability to manage Autosave.
    The fact that you say, (With what I would imagine is a straight face) that you don't need Autosave in Revit - a program that never met a crash, it couldn't warm up to, especially if you seduced it with enough constraints and model complexity, is hilarious in the most endearing sense of the word.
    I get that you've never used ArchiCAD and therefore don't appreciate how this enhancement make ArchiCAD a virtually crash-free program, but seriously, dude, don't embarrass yourself like that.

    You also say:-

    >>>>>"WOW, AC uses multicores to place a PDF... Big fucking deal."

    And how does Revit handle PDF placement and manipulation within the project file? In terms of flexibility, display, and update-ability?

    Also, explain to me how this is a laughable point in Graphisoft's favour, but the use of Multi-core capability ostensibly for Vector-based 2D DWG format (a supposed Autodesk native format, which one would think a sister Autodesk application would not need extra computing horsepower to facilitate export of) is a laudable point in Revit's favour?


    Continued below...

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  14. Lastly, in listing Revit's list, you say:

    >>>>"Now that list only has one more item (9) BUT the actual items that are listed are much more effective and powerful, when compared to the other BIM Authoring Tools!!!"


    Notice (from the list) how, apart from one or 2 of the things listed, almost everything else has to do with file loading (on opening the program) and element loading into memory, and generally program handling of the file itself, and almost nothing to do with actual workflow (i.e the things we actually do when we use the program, like design, model, draft, annotate, manipulate)
    Fact of the matter is that Revit is not truly Multi-core capable when it comes to program functionality (i.e enchanting the program's actual functions and tasks versus how the OS handles it in exchange between system memory and processor) versus workflow.
    Talk to any actual Revit developer and they'll confirm this for you themselves.
    And I'm talking about actual developers and not Marketing peons (like the ones who drafted that list).

    ArchiCAD's not FULLY multi-core capable (even if FULLY Multi-core aware) and the developers clearly explain why not and why it wouldn't be an advantage for it to be so relative to the effort to make it so.
    Revit's not even partially Multi-core capable in the core program functions and any real developer you press concerning this will confirm it for you themselves.

    How's that for backing up my points?
    Real name or not.

    And as for my the real name, you can find it at the LinkedIN discussion group where you cross-posted this joke (your words, not mine) of an article of yours.
    I'm the guy pointing out the ludicrousness of it all.

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